Visiting the many golf-related Web sites while doing research for NoBogies is a continual reminder of a major Web design issue commonly seen on business Web sites: using Flash everywhere and especially ONLY using Flash. The only thing I have never figured out is WHY Web designers are doing this in the first place! Perhaps they teach them to do so in college?
I wonder how many companies realize the serious drawbacks and what an extremely poor Web experience Flash sites provide for a very large segment of the Internet-using population? Even among golfers there are bound to be many who simply can not benefit from these types of sites.
Here’s how one exceptional Web Designer and SEO I know replied to my question about whether Flash is still a bad idea:
MikeTek: @GrowMap: Beyond the usability (which is generally awful) the SEO implications of a full-Flash site can be horrendous.
[NOTE: Mike is the author of an exceptional Web Design SEO blog called UnstuckDigital and offers Web Design and SEO Services. We highly recommend him.]
Instead of reinventing the wheel I will share here what many others have to say about what Flash is good for and why many uses are seriously impacting the effectiveness, usability and find-ability of sites using it incorrectly:
- Why Flash Is Generally A BAD Idea For Your Company’s Web Site
- Why Flash Websites are are Really, Really Bad Idea – Huge debate there from designers who love Flash and Internet Strategists and SEOs who share the limitations [Warning: some bad language.]
- Why Flash Websites are a Bad Idea
- Flash: 99% Bad – Excellent detail on major usability issues
- 25% of All Web Users Are Disabled
Are you starting to see a pattern here? Here is a short list of the issues covered more extensively in the excellent posts I shared above:
- Flash requires a proprietary plug-in that DOES NOT work at all on all systems and must be manually loaded on others.
- No User Accessibility on phones, many PCs, 64 bit operating systems, slower Internet connections, and those with limited bandwidth or who block Flash because they must pay for extra bandwidth.
- Administrative accessibility: can YOU edit your flash files yourself? What will you do if the person who created the Flash is not available to make changes?
- Flash is bad for SEO: Most Search Engines do NOT index flash so your site will have poor search engine placement.
If your site is primarily Flash you simply can not reach much of your intended audience. The solution for those who have already invested in a Flash site is to offer an html version of your site and ALWAYS offer a way to bypass the Flash and get to an html page.
Want to see what visitors to your site see? Turn off Flash or use FlashBlockPro. This is what I see when I visit a Web page featuring Flash:
Imagine someone seeing your site as one large image like that or a page with several smaller identical images. How long do you suppose most visitors who only see these images will stay on your site? The only thing worse than a site full of Flash is one that automatically plays music!
NEW: If you already have a Flash site, are a Flash developer or really want to use it you owe it to yourself to read The Truth about Flash Websites and SEO. Mike specifically explains:
“if your website is driven by Flash a non-Flash version should be displayed for browsers without Flash support”
I would add that you should also provide a way to exit any Flash intro and select the html version manually even if your browser DOES support Flash!
NEW: Many Web site owners THINK they really, really want a Flash site. The solution to this issue and some others is to buy them a copy of the book Don’t Make Me Think. Giving one to the decision makers is a good way to get your points across without being confrontational. I’ve heard of consultants giving copies to CEOs, CIOs, or whomever is pushing for a Flash site. Here is more information on it:
*** Don’t Make Me Think by Steven Krug *** Every person involved in the design, creation, ownership or any other aspect of any Web site should own this book. It is simple, concise, to the point, and easy enough for anyone to understand – even people with no Internet or technical background.
You can read a Sample Chapter from the book. Buying a copy of this book for every member of your Team will be the best thing any Web site owner ever did. You’ll never make obvious mistakes again if you keep this book handy! Have a CEO or Owner asking you to make one? Give them this book! [NOTE: Look for the second edition.]
What do YOU think? Let us know in the comments. We use CommentLuv and all comments are dofollow.
More Resources on Web Design and Flash:
- When Should You Have a Flash Website or Use Flash on a Web site (Jun 19, 2009)
- WheFlash and Search Engine Optimization: The Latest on How Well Google Indexes Flash (Mar 17, 2009)
- When Will Flash Become a Trend? (Mar 11, 2009)
- Seven Opinions to Avoid Flash Like the Plague While Designing Web Sites (Feb 27, 2009)
- Create Effective Search Engine Optimization Using Flash–Yes Flash (Feb 3, 2009)
- Nielsen Norman Group Report: Usability of Rich Internet Applications and Web-Based Tools: Design Guidelines Based on User Testing of 46 Flash Tools
WEB DESIGN MISTAKES:
- Jakob Nielsen’s Top Ten Mistakes in Web Design
- Top Ten Web Design Mistakes of 1999 (still relevant)
- Mystery Meat Navigation (MMN) Any non-obvious navigation or text than only appears when you move your mouse over it.
INCREASING CONVERSION RATES:
- Are You Driving Away Your Potential Buyers With These Two Common Mistakes
- Close More Sales TODAY By Implementing This One Free Strategy
- Why Conversions Trump More Traffic Every Time
- How to Grow Your Business In Spite of Gloomy Economic Predictions
Gail Gardner
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I’ve had clients who wanted to use flash, even in spite of how much I warned them about what it would do to their on page SEO. Especially when it comes to Flash as menu’s. Flash can’t be spidered, but try explaining that to a client who likes what it looks like to have a flash menu or spiffy flash banner.
It really make sense to those web designers and even the comments that when there’s a flash in a site often it only makes it slow to load the page, so this post here would make a “wake-up-call” to those who always uses it for just nothing.
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I agree – flash is bad for websites. With the advancements in css and onset of HTML 5 – its use will reduce significantly, and justly so.
But search engines do index flash content. At least Google does. Al though I doubt it gives them same importance as HTML stuff.
Thanks for enlightening us on what would be the effect of using flash in our websites especially to our ranking. This is so great and very helpful to many particularly to website owners. Thanks again for sharing.
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Most people despise flash, obviously, for usability reasons. It may looks stunning but it will take time to load in your browser.
This article is helpful to those people who already invested in flash. At least, there is still a remedy for this problem.
Noel Addison would love you to read ..Selling Ice Cubes to Eskimos
Flash is a no-go. Why would you want to use flash? It is horrible for SEO and most users find it difficult to use…if it works. So it’s a waste of time putting all this work in for something that useless.
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Yes, flash hangs and crashes in both of my browsers on a regular basis. That is another drawback.
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Yes, I’ve heard from a lot of bloggers that Flash is indeed a bad idea in making a site. However, I am quite confused why some Flash-designed websites have #1 spots in SERPs if using Flash is not SEO friendly? Share your thoughts, please?
Hi Glen,
Sharp Web designers provide a text version of everything on the flash site to be indexed and add sitemaps for the major search engines. Those alternate versions are easily indexed.
Supposedly Google is working on indexing flash sites but since I am neither a designer nor an SEO I don’t know how sell that works.
growmap would love you to read ..Three Free Online Image Optimization Tools
I remember reading another article about the plights of using flash intros, wish I could remember where I saw it. In my opinion, the only time you should really be using flash is if your business involves providing flash segments for clients and you need to showcase your work.
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This is a bit of an old chestnut in terms of SEO. The key is using some moderation with flash (if you must use it) and still give enough ‘spider food’ for the bots. All things being equal I would never use it at all
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Really?any reasons why?
Hi,
But now a days Flash also detected by google.
They do an awesome job.
Thanks – Jey
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Flash websites may be look great, the animation, the effects, the quality,etc. but Flash has many things to improved and many bugs to fix. Like on what’s written on the article it has lots of cons. The main problem of that is the Flash are not supported by other system specially the mobile phones. The site that is made out of Flash is not SEO friendly. Flash has a long way to go and to proved.
I agree that flash is horrible! They are too busy and sometimes hard to navigate round!
Totally agree! I developed a business doing flash design but now when clients request it I find myself talking them out of it! It might look nice but just it just doesn’t make a lot of sense these days….
Flash websites really hard to do but then, Me as one of the website developer that wants to know how to develop a flash website really need to have study all about it and make some research about it.
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Hi Marco,
I agree with you, Flash isn’t that so easy to do but then if you do it perfectly all of your hard work will have a corresponding reward. So Thank you for your nice post.
rogue would love you to read ..Main Content
Flash sites provide poor user experience as they often take ages to load. I didn’t know they’re also bad for SEO. Thanks for sharing this!
This is a really Good Article & Thubs up.
nice share your information!
I agree. Most Flash applications and websites can be very large and slow to download. In a lot of situations, the entire Flash site must be downloaded before it can be used. And while it is possible to add in graphical countdowns and other features to make the time pass more quickly, many people still won’t wait.
At first I really like Flash websites and wanted it for myself. But then I heard from many people that it’s very bad to SEO, so I stick to static sites. But I think for established and branded companies who don’t need much optimization, then Flash can really help in their branding.
SEO is a big draw back. I would love to use a flash navigation system but i know it wont work well for SEO.
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Flash has it’s drawbacks, sure – for ecommerce or SEO priority sites you wouldn’t dream of using Flash but having said that, it’s high market penetration of around 95% and the fact that it’s capable of things jQuery or HTML5 can’t yet touch makes good commercial sense for many RIA sites.
I’m not sure where or when Flash became such a big deal, or why, for that matter. I think it takes away from the overall feel of a site. Sure it looks nice but if you are selling something, get to the point! It’s just a distraction and can cause browsers to run slower.
I’d also like to include that the insanely popular iPhone can’t handle Flash on its browser yet, meaning anyone who pulls your site up from an iPhone can’t see anything Flash related. Just keep your website simple, don’t worry about a bunch of crazy Flash graphics flying at the screen!
Love the post. I needed to source this info for a project, i will post a link back on here once i’m done and you can read it Thanks
Damien
Great article you have here.These information you have here is a interesting one.
I hope that it will spread to other people.And keep up your good work!
For massively interactive animated sites I still find Flash the best option but there is a lot you can do with JS or libraries like Jquery. I think with smaller sites, Flash just isn’t an option anymore. With the caffeine Google update putting a higher focus on site load time you have to be more careful using Flash. For those still using Flash optimising should be a high priority. Thanks for the post.
This is a good thoughtful post with information that has got me thinking, Flash is for info sites only not for those that plan on adding seo at a later date. For me a flash website is like buying a Ferrari and keping it locked in the agrage, whats the point?
for me its heaviness (slow loading) is one of flash site major drawback. also think that modification is not very easy.
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The Flash is a real problem for Search Engine Optimization (SEO). It’s very difficult to obtain good position in SERPs if you have a website based on Flash technology.
The HTML5 seems to be ready to be launched. I’ve seen some nice effects made with HTML5 and I think in short time the flash for websites will be history. It will be used just for embed movies and some banners.
The only good thing I can say about corporate Flash sites is that it is providing a steady stream of work for web design shops to do redesigns. I feel bad for the companies that shelled out big bucks for those “eye candy” Flash sites just to realize that the are a nightmare to maintain and for SEO.
Like other posters have stated, it is really all about what you’re trying to accomplish. To get better results on you SERP reports, you may want to steer clear of Flash. However, if the site is established, it is nice to have.
Flash does provide rich content for websites, but a big problem with it is that it doesn’t work well with Blackberry or Apple phones. Since these two brands are both very popular, this problem affects many people.
.-= Rachel@Web Design Chicago´s featured blog ..Improve Conversions with Remarketing =-.
Hi
I agree with u according to u Flash files, especially those using sound effects, embedded movies or bitmap images are big in size and can take a while to load. Hence, if it takes too long to open your page, visitors will no longer wait and transfer to the site who’s loading faster. Also, analog users will definitely have a problem in loading of Flash webpages.
Thanks !!!
I think that flash can be an amazing tool for interactive programs on your website and for fast loading, good looking animations over the internet. Though some designers tend to overdo it and use it just for the sake of its pretty visual effects. You’ll probably find that due to compatibility issues, or from people being too impatient to wait for your site page to load; you’ll lose a lot of visitors to your website. If you’re using flash for a personal page or for a specific animation, then it can be useful; but I wouldn’t use it for a business website that needs to present its services clearly.
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But still, flash sites tend to look awesome. Its much easier to create a good looking site with flash graphics, it’s all up to your decision
Thanks, this is a great insight into the problems of using flash, and thanks for the recommendation of the guys blog,i have regular checks to see if he has any more tips x
I never use flash for my site because not everyone have a high speed Internet connection. By the way, it’s not SEO friendly 😛 Just my thought. Cheers everyone. Great topic to share 🙂
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I have read on google that the search engine bots have started crawling the Flash so for the SEO we can also optimize the flash sites.
Thanks for the info.
well we cant say flash is not good it depend upon your work.if you are doing seo than flash is not good because crawler doesn’t crawl the flash pages but on the other side it make the site attractive.
is there such thing as ALT tags (search engine readable description for images) for flash movies so it can be search engine friendly?
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yes this is true and i think flash website is not good for seo point of view.because i have heard that Google generally don’t crawl the flash pages.
I personally stare clear of flash. I think unless you are a very competent user of flash then its probably not worth using it. It does have a few things that can trip websites up for novices designers.
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java script and flash, are always an issue when talking about SEO. i hope to see that changed in the future.
flash is very good for online application but seo point of view its bad.it depend upon what type of work you are doing.well i got many key points here thanks.
Flash are generally good to use, but I will agree they have some few bad negatives. I think the advantages out number the drawbacks
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i agree with you.flash is not appropriate technology while creating a website but still it is very popular but i think its not appropriate for seo.nice post.keep sharing.
I agree. Flash is really bad if you are thinking about SEO and you are wishing to support as many web visitors as possible.
But Flash is really really good for online applications and corporate browser based software which is not supposed to be seen by everybody.
Another thing that Flash is good for is of course Flash Games.
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I agree completely that Flash is not an appropriate technology for building a website. HTML and its variants are designed for that purpose – Flash was designed as an animation tool, nothing more.
I would go even further and say that if your website’s front page depends on JavaScript to fully render (whether to load Flash or something else), you’re also in deep trouble. Millions of us use the NoScript plugin and all we see are blank spaces with little icons. Our next likely action is either the back button or the stumble thumbs-down.
Hi ZigPress,
I totally agree and until I finally got direct wireless that is EXACTLY what I saw because I had to limit bandwidth or HughesNet (AVOID THEM!) would make my Internet unusable.
Many have the disadvantage of believing everyone else’s life is exactly like theirs and that is far from the truth.
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Perhaps, the point is that flash design is really popular and like with all the new things eevryone wants to see it, both the designer who does the job and the customer for whom this job is done.
Websites based on Flash can work fine but it depend on what you want to achieve. We’ve used Flash technology AS3 and Papervision3d and maybe we will never be on high position in SERPs but we’ve won FWA award Site of the Day and as you know it’s very prestigious award.
If you’re going to use Flash on your site, you must have an HTML version that displays when Flash is enabled. It can be tempting to put in just a single line or two of HTML as your non-Flash alternative, after all, you’ve done so much work on the Flash site. But since the search engines only see the HTML, that’s what they’ll rank, and you won’t rank high with just a tiny version of your site in HTML.
If you must use Flash as your site, and you want to rank well in search engines, you need to be prepared to write your site twice – once in Flash and once in HTML.
Still too new, will wait and see
Thanks for the info, it’s good to have another source of cheap traffic 🙂
Thanks again.
Good Luck
Flash sites mainly focuses on images and very little on the text.Earlier search engines were not able to index flash sites as bots required content or text to crawl them.But it is said as of now, that search engines do crawl and index Adobe Flash based sites,if HTML pages of these Flash Pages are created.
From SEO point of view,the basic elements such as Anchor Texts,Heading tags,image alt tags are all very much complicated or sometimes ignored while implementing with Flash.
Many Web Designers lack SEO knowledge and that is true whether they are using Flash or not. It is unfortunate that businesses don’t really know how to evaluate Web Development companies.
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Wow! I don’t use flash in my sites because I know that search engines’ bots can’t understand them. However, I expect that those bots may read flash in the near future. By the way, I didn’t know that there are many bad drawbacks like you mentioned. Thanks for the post.
Hello Manop,
Google claims they can read some Flash and it is possible to make Flash more search engine friendly. It still has all these other issues though so it is best used for entertainment, games, or short movies.
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As far as there is no concern in SEO, flash can be used to the hilt. Excellent stuff indeed!
I totally disagree unless all the content in Flash is also provided in text. Those with older PCs, slower Internet connections, or bandwidth limits will not view Flash files. Researchers and those who build reference sites will not find what is hidden in Flash so those sites attract far fewer incoming links.
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Flash can be amazing, a lot of really cool designs can be made with it too! Unfortunately because of the search engines not being able to read it or index it we don’t opt to use it much anymore… that is unless we decide were ok with something not being recognized by the SE.
Hi Nick,
Flash is great for creating some content – just not for important information that needs to be searched. Ideally a great site could use both. Some people like to view video; others like to read. It is always wise to cater to both.
Hi,
Very nice post.If you use lot of flash in your site and the content in your site minimum than it is difficult that your site rank high in the Google.Because content is king according the Google. Thanks for the sharing
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Welcome Ray,
Yes, I agree and not just for search engines. It is also important to visitors who want to search your site.
Hi,
It just is not the best way to display an entire Web site or anything your visitors may wish to search for instead of watch. Those who build sites have an obligation to explain the issues involved to their clients BEFORE they accept the work.
Thanks.
Hello Yash,
Yes, designers should always explain the pros and cons before they accept the work. I suspect though that many don’t know what they are.
Web sites for search engines or web sites for human? I accept Flash has it own drawback when it comes to SEO, i used to be a flash developer in my early career but i am more into php+mysql now.
Sorry i could not read all the comments, i hate reading large text pages. It is the content of the site that makes it popular not SEO. You need SEO if you are selling shoes, you do not need SEO if you are a company like Ford and selling Mustang ( http://www.fordvehicles.com/the2010mustang / ) .
@Tracy
You are probably unaware about XML driven dynamic Photo galleries like
flashden.net/item/fullscreen-gallery-xml-driven/full_screen_preview/43376 .
Hi Creative,
I agree that Web design must first be about the user. I may have more objections to Flash because I am a wordsmith and do a lot of searches when researching a subject. Anything in Flash is usually unsearchable so it is as if that content did not even exist.
Some people (like me) prefer to read; others (often designers) prefer multi-media presentations. The readers of my blog are more likely to be thinkers and readers than designers. You are the second person recently who prefers images to words. The other is a specialist in logo design.
Web developers enjoy creating sites with flash, and clients think it looks flash!!
That’s the main reason why so many use it. They don’t think about the major drawbacks. As more people realise it’s a bad idea its usage will decrease dramatically.
Hi Johnson,
That is why I recommend Steve Krug’s great book Don’t Make Me Think. It helps business owners and anyone involved in designing a Web site understand how specific design elements affect usability.
Interesting thoughts on Flash, very helpful for a slow learner and will be a more informed user in the future!
Regards Penelope
Welcome Penelope. There is much more here for you to learn, especially the information on increasing traffic through proven free methods and how to increase conversions through improved usability and copywriting.
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I can’t tell you the countless times friends and coworkers of mine wanted a flash site. HOWEVER! I have that having a link that points to the flash version and the html version is a smart alternative if you really do want a flash site.
I still love flash though.
As long as there is also an html version AND you provide a way to bypass it immediately there is no problem using Flash. I can’t tell you how many times businesses have had sites built that would not work on older PCs or slower Internet connections.
Those who build sites have an obligation to explain the issues involved to their clients BEFORE they accept the work. At least suggest they read Steve Krug’s book Don’t Make Me Think. He explains the issues clearly.
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i think flash should be used in an adequate manner because where it is not useful for searches at the same time visitors peers for flash contents in the web pages so it should be used fairly.
Flash can be great for videos; it just is not the best way to display an entire Web site or anything your visitors may wish to search for instead of watch. Even if I didn’t have to put up with the download limits of satellite Internet I don’t have time to watch long videos to find what I want.
Sites that offer products and services are greatly decreasing their potential conversions. Busy Internet users want to quickly find exactly what they’re seeking – and Flash is not the way to make that happen.
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@Dennis I remembered this comment but missed it last round. LOL I have never been rich. I had a friend who built his own ISP and I built that site using a PC in his spare office.
I spent hours after work every day adding pages. There was so much quality content that Yahoo! added a new directory category for it and it made $400 in AdSense a month. I never could have built a site that big without fast access and dedicated time.
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@Rein Thank you. I hope you noticed the book I recommended by Steve Krug. It is a great way to dissuade those who THINK they want a totally Flash site or Flash Intro.
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Very informative post! Exactly the things to be considered by a webmasters if incorporating a flash in a website project. 🙂
Great man!
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@RobMichael You’ll get better traffic and lower bounce rates for having done so. I’m not against all Flash – it has proper uses such as videos. It just is not a good idea for entire sites or the majority of the content on an information or store site.
@Derek Yes, you’re right. It also reminds me of sites that had multiple twirling animated images and the banners with text that slid back and forth.
@David True. It really worries me that Google seems to be the only consideration for more and more people. I’m working on a new post right now that shows the serious danger that has created.
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The use of Flash on most sites reminds me of the hideous use of the “blink” tag back in the day. Ugh!
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“I built my first Web sites in the mid to late ’90s on a T-1 line…”
Must be nice to be wealthy. LOL
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I’ve taken direct measures to eliminate flash from my site for the above reasons. Fortunately, the content of my flash-based widgets can be brought into the site via RSS.
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Flash is great when you want to run a video. It is NOT great for creating searchable, indexable content – or even VIEWable content for those who don’t have powerful computers and non-satellite high-speed access.
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I don’t want to really get into a huge debate but Flash is not bad. It’s a tool that can be used or abused. Most arguments against Flash can be solved by the designer (except the proprietary one). Alternative content “under” Flash make the content accessible, search friendly etc. XML used to easily update and there is currently no better video delivery method period.
Comment originally posted at FriendFeed:
My main additional issues with Flash and Silverlight and their ilk are: 1. proprietary; 2. persistent data (cookies) that few know exists and how to manage. It’s amazing what can be done without it… http://www.dhteumeuleu.com/
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@James King I am glad you liked it and thank you for sharing us with your readers. I visited your blog and noticed several posts that would be additional resources here. When I get some time I will add links to them from the related information here.
We are a dofollow blog so feel free to add any related posts you have in the comments here. I periodically move them up into the body of posts.
@Dennis I have pretty much always just clicked away so I don’t recall them being worse back then. I built my first Web sites in the mid to late ’90s on a T-1 line and even then I wasn’t fond of Flash.
Ah the 90’s, that was a time. You were hard-pressed to find a site NOT built flash style.
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Hi,
An excellent post, I wanted to share this post with my readers, so I’ve added this to my weekly link love.
http://www.atmmultimedia.com/link-love-week-3/
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@Roxy Many Flash designers truly BELIEVE that “Flash is no barrier to SEO” – unfortunately they don’t know anything ABOUT SEO so it is easier for them to keep believing that. It can easily be proven and I have been considering taking the time to do just that.
I’m going to edit this post to add a solution for you. Check the very end under “What to Do When Your Clients Insist on Using Flash”.
@Dennis LOL I’m not sure exactly what you mean; however, I am certain that the myth that since Google indexes Flash now all is fine SEO-wise will increase the number of sites making this critical mistake.
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Hello 1990’s web building.
Dennis Edell’s last blog post..Opening INTERNAL Links- New Window or Same Window?
Great post. I wish all our demanding business clients would take heed. Many have been completely hypnotised into thinking that Flash is the future – some have even been told how Flash is no barrier to SEO.
@Matt ROFLOL That is the best sound bite I’ve ever heard about Flash. Thank you! I’m going to Twitter it. Although Google does now index Flash if their Flash is one large file there is far less SEO benefit.
As MikeTek said in his comment above, “a website that was built entirely in Flash and loads a single .swf file. That means there’s one page to index, no way to bookmark a page within the site, etc.”
The best way to be found online is to have a separate page for every single keyword phrase you wish to target – one large file = very few individual search listings.
It also means no one can share a specific page on Twitter, FriendFeed, StumbleUpon, Google Reader or any other major Social Networking or bookmarking site! They also can not send a page or product to their friends and family any other way either.
I share hundreds of pages across multiple Social Networking sites and in other blogs every day and none of them are going to be Flash. Check out the older post I’ve linked to the main URL (not the CommentLuv link) in this post for how far one action can travel.
InternetStrategist’s last blog post..The Serious Drawbacks to Using FLASH for Web Design: Usability, SEO, Editability
I love Flash, because nearly all my competitors love using it, and then they wonder why Google doesn’t index or crawl their pages. (LOL)
@Spot from Nikon There are many ways to get to sites so the first question is how does she get to the sites she uses. I suspect they’re linked from where she started and she is reaching sites from links from other favorite sites.
There is less competition for kid’s sites in search engines too and search engines are not the ONLY way to find sites. High profile sites with television coverage for example would get a lot of traffic even if they weren’t listed in search engines – but not as much as they would if they are.
I am sincerely hoping that Internet users do find other ways to find sites. It can not happen soon enough. I am seriously concerned for businesses that get almost all their visitors and buyers from Google – and today that is probably most of them.
If Google’s system drops them suddenly traffic will drop to almost nothing and so will their revenues. I have seen that happen and it is not pretty. Not only that – getting that traffic back will take too long – IF it even happens and many businesses would be closed by then.
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@Tyler Yes, Google holds a dangerously high monopolistic amount of market share. What that means is that every business is at their mercy. That is an even larger reason to find other methods of bringing traffic to a business. We need MORE other search engine traffic – not NO other search engines!
I do not use Flashblock – I offered that so you could experience exactly what many Internet users see when they visit sites you really think are great.
Flash sites are nearly useless for me because, as I stated before, the only high speed access available to me is satellite and HughesNet has severe bandwidth limits. Since I work online exceeding those limits and having NO Internet access at all for 24 hours at a time is simply not an option.
Designers tend to have powerful PCs attached to the very best access but the customers of their clients do NOT. While a designer can simply choose to dismiss any potential visitor who doesn’t choose to live in the city and own the latest and greatest technology that is NOT such a great idea for businesses.
Even the wealthiest golfers do not all live in the city. There ARE upscale 6000 square foot homes near golf courses in rural areas of the U.S. where high speed Internet access is provided either by satellite or local small wireless companies.
Every golfer is not a techie and neither is every potential buyer for the products and services of any business with a Web site. Just because someone has cash to spend on what that business offers does NOT imply that they own a newer PC and have high speed access.
I wonder if those businesses know that eliminating 9% of their potential market (to use just your example of how many still use dial-up) right off the top will agree that this is “likely a non-issue”. You’re going to dismiss all those other issues too?
I challenge you to provide some examples of Flash sites that allow for text sizing, readability, search-ability or audio issues. Yes, I threw an extra issue in there: the ability to search a site and locate what I want. Show me a site that provides a way to search Flash content.
Let’s say I want to buy a particular brand or model golf club. How much can I find about it on a golf manufacturer’s site that uses Flash versus how much can I almost instantly access on one that is NOT Flash.
I know designers have no qualms about dismissing Internet users who don’t happen to have hardware and access equivalent to theirs. I seriously doubt they tell their clients up front that they are planning to intentionally ignore X percent of their buying market. That is why I am telling them.
Many sites work great in the Corporate office on the T-1 line. Decision makers in those companies should visit their site while visiting friends, family and neighbors and see what they look like out in the real world where THEIR potential buyers function.
@Tyler I don’t understand your last comment. I will go check to see if Akismet captured another comment from you. Ah yes, there it is. I have approved it and will reply again after I read it. Akismet tends to capture any comment that includes links and I have to manually approve them.
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Yeah, I wouldn’t post my comments either if I were you.
Google holds 72% market share in the US alone. In Belgium, they hold 96%. (http://googlesystem.blogspot.com/2009/03/googles-market-share-in-your-country.html) So you can talk about the fact that there are other search engines, but who is using them? Yahoo, the in second place, is struggling to stay alive.
Flashblock… So, your poor user experience is the result of another plugin that YOU installed, not Flash. You are contradicting yourself. On Mozilla, Flashblock has been downloaded 6,160,256 times. 6.1 million / 202 million internet users in the US = 3%. That means that instead of Flash is still available on roughly 96% of all computers.
Internet bandwidth… We’re not in 1997 anymore. According to PEW, only 9% of Americans had dialup in 2008. ( http://www.pewinternet.org/Media-Mentions/2009/Recession-could-lengthen-the-twilight-of-dialup.aspx ) Obviously, if I were developing a site for a small, local business in an area that doesn’t have broadband access, I would certainly think twice about a Flash site. But, for any business that has a national or regional (in the US) target audience, this is most likely a non-issue.
Again, a good designer will take into account their audience and allow for text sizing for readability, audio issues, etc. should the site’s audience require those features. With good planning, all of these drawbacks can be avoided.
@MikeTek Thank you for adding more detail on the SEO perspective. My latest comment (above) should clarify many more of the issues.
@John Yes, that is another thing about Flash – it simply is not as fast to load as static pages / html. I also prefer functional over pretty but slower.
I want to mention that John has posts about building Websites at the link in his comment above. John, we encourage comments including relevant links. Any time you have related material do feel free to share the link in the comments. I often move these up into the main posts.
You may have noticed that we are dofollow and have KeywordLuv and CommentLuv installed. Next time you leave a comment you can use John@WebDesign or John@WebsiteBuildingBiz to provide your own anchor text for your links.
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I agree with this totally!
However . . . here’s something I’ve noticed. My 7 year old daughter (who is almost 8, as I’m constantly reminded) has become quite the internet surfer over the last few months. One of the things I’ve noticed about the site she and her friends visit is that they are ALL in flash. Every single one.
Do you have any theories on why that might be?
Perhaps SEO isn’t as important for kid-oriented sites (because kids (or at least my daughter) doesn’tuse Google). But also, maybe there’s something about flash that makes sites easier to use.
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@Mike Thank you for taking the time to comment on this very important issue that obviously still generates much debate. I do hope business owners will listen to those who see the big picture instead of developers who love Flash so much they ignore the drawbacks.
@Web Design Bureau We appreciate you reinforcing what we have posted here. Business owners do need to know the pros AND cons before they make important decisions like this.
@Tracy You are doing your clients a service by getting them to listen to your recommendations. I know that many business owners do find Flash appealing and it is easier for Web Designers to give in than it is to educate.
@Adam Singer I know I’ve done my job here when I solicit a comment from you. For those reading this who don’t know, Adam has one of the best and most read blogs around. I encourage you to read and subscribe to it.
@Tyler I encourage you to use the link to FlashBlockPro, go to one of your favorite sites, and see what we see. Then come back and tell me about our poor user experience being because of a bad designer and not limitations beyond the control of the users who experience THAT.
Point by point I will refute your claims here:
First, there are many more search engines besides Google and NONE of the others index Flash. Every business is already at risk because they get too much of their traffic and generate a far too large percentage of sales from Google.
Second, “installed on” and “used on” are two different things. Flash may be ON those computers but it is not being used on a significant percentage because the users have blocked it because:
1) They don’t like auto-playing files
2) They have to pay by the minute or by the amount of bandwidth they use
3) The only high speed Internet access available to them is satellite and the penalty for exceeding your allotted bandwidth usage is 24 hours without Internet access.
Even though we pay double to mitigate that damage we still can not allow sites to auto-play Flash files. To see them we have to click on EACH blocked Flash item individually and WAIT for it to load.
Seriously, visit some of your favorite Flash sites using FlashBlockPro to get a feel for that great user experience and do let us know how much you enjoy them that way.
I wish some non-technical business owners would comment on how easy they would find “changing the text in a few XML files”. Also note that in order for them to do that they have to install a Flash CMS. How many Flash sites today are already in a Flash CMS?
Here is the bottom line. In order to decide on building a business site that uses Flash predominantly or exclusively, the business owner must be willing to give up all potential buyers who:
1) Have older PCs that struggle with Flash
2) Do not have high speed access which is STILL not available in many areas of the U.S. today
3) Have vision issues that require them to be able to resize what they see
4) Have hearing issues that make audio difficult to understand or hear
5) Have any other issues related to using computers or that require special devices to adjust what they visit.
6) ALL mobile devices
7) Visitors who prefer to read or do not wish to wait for Flash to load. That wait is long enough to make many just click away.
This argument is tired. Serious Flash developers and Flash shops develop sites that are SEO-friendly (using SWFObjet), especially now that Google indexes Flash: http://tinyurl.com/a8f9eg and I can cite several more articles about SEO-ing Flash sites (http://tinyurl.com/dyg6yp, http://tinyurl.com/c6o5j8).
Your other claims are a reach:
Flash Player, though a plugin, is nearly ubiquitous, installed on nearly 99% of computers in the world. (http://www.adobe.com/products/player_census/flashplayer/version_penetration.html , .
I do agree that an HTML options should be made available for mobile phones, especially given the growing mobile audience.
Administrative Accessibility: If this is a concern, there are several Flash CMS systems that exist and work quite well. If a site is developed properly, it should be as easy as changing the text in a few XML files.
Poor user experience is a result of a bad designer, information architect or software developer, not of the technology itself.
Agreed 100%. Avoid flash at all costs…
I do lots of sites for photographers and they are some of the worst about wanting lots of flash. Once I finally get them to understand that to have galleries with a CMS they can manage without a webmaster I can usually get them to settle for a flash intro page with a nav menu below for those who do not want to wait for it to load, and seo.
You are right about the music as well. Plus lots are now wanting videos that play on load which is an even bigger pain.
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I agree with your entire post. A Flash intro is a good option for people who really want Flash on their site. It’s hard to explain to clients exactly why Flash, music, and video can hurt their site, because they think it can only make their site stand out from others. In time, I think more people will download the necessary plugins for Flash and that no will longer be as much of an issue. However, I seriously doubt there will ever come a time when people don’t get irritated by music and videos that start playing as soon as a site loads.
Speed, speed, and productivity! I worked for a website with a backend UI built out of flash and the work basically amounted to research and data entry. So when the interface went from HTML to Flash, I found myself spending more time waiting than actually accomplishing tasks. A five second fix might involve 15 to 30 seconds of downtime – and the longer the browser stayed open the worse the wait. Sure, it looked nice … but thats not a very practical benefit (especially for admin functions!)
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Sounds like somebody is a Flash designer. 😉
I don’t think an argument is tired until it’s been widely accepted.
Flash has its place, and it can make the web an incredibly interactive experience. But if you’ve done your research you know that the fact that Google is now crawling some Flash has alleviated hardly any of the problems of this medium from an SEO standpoint.
Take, for example, a website that was built entirely in Flash and loads a single .swf file. That means there’s one page to index, no way to bookmark a page within the site, etc.
I agree that it depends largely on the developer – a Flash site that is SEO-friendly is not an impossibility. The problem is that most Flash designers (and clients for that matter) don’t understand Flash replacement and other SEO-friendly Flash techniques well-enough, if they’re aware of them at all.
So I agree – it’s not the technology itself (while every technology does have its limitations). There are ways around the limitations, but most businesses and developers haven’t built these techniques into their budgets.
MikeTek’s last blog post..On Web Marketing & Low-cost Outsourcing
Thanks for the kind words!
I couldn’t agree more with this post. Flash has an “ooh, ahh” quality that seems to slay many business owners, but it is a usability nightmare – not to mention what a number it can do on your potential to rank for relevant keywords.
I wish every business owner who was sold on a full Flash website would have read this post first.
MikeTek’s last blog post..On Web Marketing & Low-cost Outsourcing